Why People Cheat & How To Prevent It
In this episode of Hot Girl Psychology, Deanna and Emahlea explore the taboo topic of CHEATING. They talk about what cheating is, as well as what types of cheating there are while defining both macro and micro cheating. The girlies dive head first into their own experiences as the cheaters and cheatees, where absolute tea is spilled, and nothing is left on the table…
D & Em then go into why people cheat, how to repair a relationship where cheating has occurred, and how to prevent cheating entirely.
This episode is the juiciest one yet, with a combination of personal and clinical knowledge to help girlies have the healthiest relationships possible. Whether you’ve cheated, been cheated on, fear it, or want to explore the concept in general: this episode is for you.
SPEAKER_00
I think that it's possible that I am a therapist today because I was cheated on. That is some lore. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
If you are a person who cheats or feels like cheating, you have to figure out why. History repeats itself until you decide to interrupt it. Hot girl psychology, hot girl psychology, hot girl psychology. Welcome to Hot Girl Psychology, where a girls girl podcast where attractiveness and attachment wounds come together.
SPEAKER_01
Here at Hot Girl Psychology, we help you become the highest and hottest version of yourself.
SPEAKER_02
I'm Emily, a startup founder and CEO, and I put the psycho and psychonutritionist.
SPEAKER_01
And I'm Deanna. I'm a clinical psychotherapist and published dark romance author. I treat complex trauma by day and I live it by night. What's up, girlies?
SPEAKER_02
Welcome to season two. I'm so excited. We have so many cool topics for you guys this season. Um, lots of fun to come. We have our custom hot girl psychology gear. So much fun. We're very proud of the legs. Um, shout out to FCI brands here in Nashville for putting these together for us and helping us do some art redesign and getting us some really high quality prints. We are so thankful. We love you. Yes, big hearts. Um, and soon you guys will be able to order these suits yourself in due time. So, Deanna, I am excited to talk about our topic today, which is cheating.
SPEAKER_01
Yes. Cheating. Yes, cheating. Such a nuanced topic. Just to give y'all a little bit of an overview of what we're gonna go over today, when it comes to cheating, we're gonna talk about what cheating is, like what constitutes us cheating, why people cheat, signs of cheating, how to know when somebody's cheating. We're gonna kind of go into our personal experiences of being the cheater or the cheatie. We're gonna talk about what to do if you have been cheated on. We're also going to talk about what to do if you have cheated on somebody else. And lastly, we'll talk about kind of how to repair as a couple if cheating has taken place, and then just some prevention tactics that you can do as a couple. Absolutely. Or even just as individuals.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. Um, if you ever find yourself in a situation where either you have been cheated on or you're thinking about cheating. Um, because we do not shame here and we recognize that both sides of the equation exist. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what is cheating? It's so loaded.
SPEAKER_01
It is so loaded. The thing about what constitutes as cheating can be so subjective from person to person or couple to couple. Yes. What's important is that the couple has a conversation about what they constitute as cheating. Yes. That being said, there are common types of cheating like sexual cheating, which is having sex with somebody else. There's emotional cheating, which is very nuanced. Oh, yeah. Because some people consider flirting as emotional cheating. Some people will call things like sending sexy photos back and forth, but not actually ever having intercourse, emotional cheating. Yeah. I would still call that sexual cheating. So that's why it's person to person. But people can also just gain feelings for somebody else and never do anything about it.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
That's still emotional cheating.
SPEAKER_02
Absolutely. What do you think constitutes us cheating? Oh my God. It is a loaded topic because there are so many different kinds of cheating. There's like micro cheating, there's macro cheating. Um, there's, you know, like because macro cheating is things like the the the actual like sexual contact, and um, you know, there's the micro cheating, which is things like for some people, liking other people's photos, or you know, and it it really is so, so subjective. Um, and what constitutes is cheating between you and one person may not be what constitutes is cheating between you and another partner. Absolutely. So, like you and you and partner A, you know, like let's say you've been with partner A and they're like somebody you're with when you're young. You might have certain feelings about what cheating is with this partner, but then as you evolve into your higher, hotter self, you may end up deciding that cheating no longer fits that definition, or you have like a level of trust with a different person that makes you want to say, okay, well, that was cheating for me in the past, but now I don't have that same feeling. Yes. And people's feelings on cheating can change over time too. One of the crazy things about cheating is that what cheating was 10 years ago, 15 years ago is not what it is today.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
Because of all the new different ways that we can interact with each other online.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, there's so many new ways. So many new ways to cheat.
SPEAKER_02
Yes, like which sucks. Really interesting. Yeah, it's an interesting thing, right? Like because back when like our parents were teenagers, like, would it have been considered cheating if somebody went and grabbed like a Playboy magazine? No. Right. But well, I don't know, some people, yes, absolutely, but no, for the most part, like, uh no, whatever. But now, like if you you have access to the same thing, but at a deeper level where you can interact with the Playboy magazine. Right. You can spend money on the Playboy magazine. Only fans. Exactly. And so, you know, if you throw one dollar at a person, does that count as cheating? If you throw $20, like there's also these, these echelons and like where does it become after cheating? Right. Yeah. And there's and like there are also these like very toxic definitions of cheating. Like there are some people who think like masturbation is cheating, or you know, like it, it's it's such a it's such an a unique thing. Yes, not everybody has the same feelings and same definition. Um so true.
SPEAKER_01
That's why it's so important to discuss it with anybody that you're dating, maybe even before you get serious. Yes. Uh, and I like the term that you used, which was micro macro cheating and micro cheating. I've always considered it as cheating or cheating adjacent.
SPEAKER_02
Oh, I like that too.
SPEAKER_01
And I yeah, they're both great. But light. Yes. Yes. Uh I have had friends, usually male friends, that'll be like, oh yeah, she's not here. She broke up with me. And I'm like, what'd you do? And they're like, and I'm like, did you cheat? And they're like, no. And I said, Did you do something cheating adjacent? And they're like, Yeah. Uh oh. Yeah. And so those are the things of like texting somebody very, very often, being flirtatious, changing their name in your phone. Yes. We should talk about that when we talk about like the cut the signs of somebody cheated. Why is the plumber texting me so much? Yes.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. Microcheating is one of those things where if there is this air underneath it of you don't trust your partner, you can call anything microcheating.
SPEAKER_01
Anything, yes. Anything. Or okay, also if somebody has cheated on you in the past, oh god, you are going to find so much evidence of micro cheating because you're going to assume that their intentions with everybody are impure. Yes. And that's not your fault.
SPEAKER_02
So I actually I do have an example of microcheating that has happened to me. Um well, I have multiple examples of what I consider to be microcheating, but um one time I had just moved to a new city and I was seeing this guy, and he told me that he like uh had told his ex-girlfriend that he loved her because he found out that she was like safe from a forest fire or something like that. And I was like, that's really weird. I was like, why are you telling me that? Yeah. He was like, well, I was just, I was just, you know, I was so happy that she was okay. And I was like, oh my God, I'm I'm just so glad you're okay. I love you so much. And I was like, why are you telling me this? Why, like, why are you telling me this? If you're telling me this, because we had only been together like, I don't know, a month at that point or something. I'm like, why are you telling like what is that? You're you're telling me this because you feel guilty. Yeah. Which oftentimes, if there is a sense of guilt, there is typically a good reason why that person is feeling that way. And it's because they know they shouldn't be doing that.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, for lack of a better like phrase, where there's smoke, there's fire.
SPEAKER_02
Oh my god. It's so perfect. No, literally, yeah. Like, and that's one of the and that ended up becoming like I feel like that's totally microcheating.
SPEAKER_01
I I find that that that's emotional cheating. It is. I actually used to not think that when I was young. Really? But I think that now.
SPEAKER_02
You know, it's it's interesting. Like, if I I I would always think that was emotional cheating forever and ever, amen. Like there is no because if because if my ass did some shit like that, I would know that it was cheating.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you know. You're telling somebody that you love them.
SPEAKER_02
Yes, and like, but then also like when you go to your partner and you tell them, hey, I did this questionable thing, you're not doing it because you're like feeling, you know, this is this is a necessary thing for me to tell this person it's important to tell them. You're telling them because you feel guilty. And you're trying to assuage guilt. So selfish. It is selfish. Not only is it selfish, but it's also like this fear of getting caught. Right? People do people tell on themselves all that oh yeah. Yes, a guilty conscience tells on itself 100% of the time.
SPEAKER_01
Yes. 100. They say that if you want to know the truth about somebody, stop talking. And they'll tell on themselves.
SPEAKER_02
Girl, I I literally, yes, because like, and that's that's one of the things that makes like a therapeutic relationship so amazing is that like, you know, you just you're talking with your client and then you just stop talking, and then they will just tell on themselves for like 60 minutes straight.
SPEAKER_01
That's what brain spotting is. Oh my god, really? Yeah, it's a lot of just like the client talking, and I I do a lot less talking. Yeah. And a lot of times we get much deeper. I love that way.
SPEAKER_02
I love that. Yeah, because people will just talk and talk, like they will take themselves down a little spiral. So basically, what you're telling me is learn the skills of brain spotting if you want to identify somebody who is going to tell on themselves. Yes. Yes, but you don't have to. I mean, you know, yeah. I mean, it could it could come in handy, I guess. I I feel like the the the definition of microcheating, it seems like it evolves over time. Because there, again, there there constantly becomes new ways for human beings to interact with each other via the internet. Right? Like there's before there was liking, there was commenting, before there was commenting, there was, you know, texting, before there was texting, there was like calling before there was calling, there was sneaking out and letters. Letters, uh Napoleon Bonaparte writing a letter to his like, I'll be home in two weeks.
SPEAKER_01
Don't Alexander Hamilton, like cheating with his wife's sister.
SPEAKER_02
I love shit like that. Yeah. So dramatic. And what it shows is that cheating is something that has been happening forever.
SPEAKER_01
Ever. Forever. It used to, but I think the issue now is that it's so easy. It used to be a fucking effort. Yes. And now it's not an effort. No, it like takes nothing. Because all you have to do is just look at your phone, type a quick message, turn your screen down, bye. So anybody that wants to will, but it also helps you kind of weed out people.
SPEAKER_02
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01
Uh, question for you. Do you personally think that porn is microcheating? Okay.
SPEAKER_02
So I think porn is often an addiction. So I don't like that's kind of like I I don't a past version of me would have been like, yes, but that past version of me was hyper insecure. Um, and I didn't understand that porn is an addiction. The more I've like gotten education on it, the more I've learned about it, the more I'm like, okay, this is not this is more of a substance than it is a real interaction with another person. So like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So from my point of view, it's it's it's its own category. Yes. You know, people lived without porn for the longest fucking time of life. Right.
SPEAKER_01
People were able to ejaculate without porn for the longest time in humanity. I appreciate the people that can raw dog it with their minds. Yeah. Like that's uh, yeah. I'm almost like, you're too weak. Like you don't have an imagination. No, literally.
SPEAKER_02
Literally, like actually, like what, like, why? But and also, like, I don't know, there's just something about porn, like when you watch it, you're like, this is she's not into that. Like, she's she's doing this for money, and she can't like she's she's captive. Yeah. And like that's the kind of thing where if a person is consuming that on the regular, they're missing that cue or they're ignoring that cue. Yes. You know, and like, but that's the kind of thing that addiction does to you. It makes you ignore cues of maybe this isn't right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like I consider so I consider porn, not to answer your question, not a form of cheating so much as it is a form of like something else is going on beneath the flaw.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. Yeah. It might not be a betrayal, but it's a flaw. Exactly. Yeah. I don't think that porn is cheating as long as you're not talking to somebody, you're not paying somebody. Yeah. Like OnlyFans and you know, OnlyFee and whatever whatever else is out there. Uh God, I'm wearing shoes this episode. I mean, literally, I'm like, shit, I just put a sock on. And don't give them that for free. For a free.
SPEAKER_00
Oh no, not the taste.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. I so I don't think that uh porn itself is cheating. I do agree, it's what's the intention. I think that what you're watching matters. Yes. I think that how many times, like a week a month you're watching or a day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What you're doing it for. If you're in a relationship with somebody, if porn is cheating to them and it's not to you, you're in a bad situation. You know, and it's like, is it is it okay to do it like if I'm out of the house? Is it okay to do it just like only a certain time? Is it okay to only watch certain types of videos? You know? And so I actually think that the more information the better, which is hard because it's a very touchy subject. It is. And people don't like to talk about things like that with their partner, especially if they're embarrassed by what they're into.
SPEAKER_02
No, a thousand percent. So, my one of the reasons from my point of view that people cheat is it's a protest behavior. Where and this this is coming from like a perspective of like a person feels trapped in a situation and they don't know how to get out of it. And so, as a way to let out some of the steam because they're in a pressure cooker, they cheat. And they do that as a way to help themselves feel more in control of a situation. Um, so like I've had like clients and things like that who are just in an extraordinarily, extraordinarily, extraordinarily dissatisfying situation, but cannot leave for any reason. Or they're like in an abusive situation and don't know how to leave, or something like that. And cheating is a way to, again, like release some of that pressure in their pressure cooker of a life so that they can feel a sense of control without feeling um, without leaving a situation. And it's kind of like a uh kick the can down the road sort of thing, a quick escape. So it's a protest behavior. Um, but they don't see it that way. They see it as something that, you know, like makes them feel guilty or makes them feel like whatever, like they're a bad person or something, as opposed to looking at it like a an indicator that they have there's something wrong, that they're that they're in a situation they don't want to be in.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I completely agree with that. I actually I wrote a study a long time ago. It's a study that proved that people who are financially dependent, solely financially dependent on their partner, are most likely to cheat on that partner. And so that was me. It was higher for men dependent on women, and which, you know and that comes with its own like societal insecurity. Exactly. And the masculine energy types of types of things, but but in general, it was across the board that they are incredibly likely to cheat. And I do think that there is a a rebellious nature that comes with somebody that is financially supporting you almost like a parental relationship. There's a rebellious nature that comes with that. Exactly. Also, I think that there is not always, but most times going to be an insecurity about not making your own money. And I think that that transcends gender. Yes. And being reliant on somebody. And also a lot of people do get quite a bit of confidence from their work, from their job, even if they don't like their job. Yes. And so not having that, you know, can create a lot of insecurity and it can have nothing to do with the other person. That's the hardest and saddest part about cheating is that sometimes it's not a bad relationship. A lot of times it is.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
But sometimes it's not a bad relationship. The person that somebody cheats on can be the perfect partner, yes, and still get cheated on because the person that cheats just has so much going on and so much insecurity, and it's not personal. Yes. Of course, it's gonna feel personal, but I always think about like Beyonce got cheated on.
SPEAKER_02
But that's because Jay-Z makes less than her. True. Maybe literally, maybe, maybe, you know, and she stayed and they worked that out, and you know, so that's but can you imagine like the pressure that somebody like that carries being that sort of relationship? Like, what would you like are you supposed to bring up the brand? And what if they have like contracts and stuff like that to have that bring together, right? Yeah, like what I'm sure they do, which is probably why he cheated.
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, well, yeah, 100%. Also, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I don't know if any of that's true, but you know this is speculation.
SPEAKER_00
Do not send SSC synthesis. This is pure allegedly, allegedly, purely in my head as I was just saying, purely speculatory.
SPEAKER_01
But yes, that would make a lot of sense. It does.
SPEAKER_02
And I feel like um sexual dissatisfaction is a huge reason why people cheat. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
100%. And that's a good point. It's usually never one thing. Never. And it's usually not something that the cheat it has done or doesn't have enough of, yeah, or anything like that. It's such a culmination of multiple things and even boredom. Yes, people get bored. Yeah. Right? Right. Like novelty.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. But that's that's typically where like pornography would come in where like, you know, paying for OnlyFans or paying for like Reddit.
SPEAKER_01
More of the micro cheating would come in if somebody's bored, or even if sexual needs aren't being met. Yes. I feel like that's usually not the only reason, though. And also because you can talk about sexual needs not being met.
SPEAKER_02
You can talk about those things if you ask for, you know, like, can we get some help on it? Like those are those are solvable problems, but it's like they are start to stack.
SPEAKER_01
When they start to stack, when there's been years of just stacking resentment. Resentment, contempt, which is we're gonna be talking more about Gottman theory on on this show, but uh, we talk about it's the four horsemen of the apocalypse, meaning like the uh the dismantle of a healthy relationship. Yes. And big ones, yeah, the big killers, and one is resentment, the other is contempt. And those things can be very, very, very difficult to repair. Yes. And not having sexual satisfaction for so many years and not saying anything about it, or the other person not hearing you when you've said something about it, you know, being bored for years and the other person not caring. Yes, a lot of those things can lead to resentment and contempt. And those are huge reasons for somebody cheating.
SPEAKER_02
Yes, a thousand percent. A thousand because and and again, like it just it never happens in a vacuum. And that's not to say, like, oh, cheating, you know, is something that should always be forgiven and stuff like that. And I am more power to couples who want to work through that. Like I'm yeah, I'm always blown away that people have this desire to work through that because I I don't find that personally, I don't find that relatable. And even like times that I've cheated and somebody works wants to work through it, I'm like, no, this is like to me, this is a sign that this is this has gone too far. Like this is this is where the door gets closed. Because if you're not gonna close it, I will close it. But like I I know that people can work through it, but I always find that to be such a um like extraordinarily challenging thing. And it it must take so much energy and effort to make that decision. And so we it's really hard.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, exactly. It's really hard. I I have a somebody that I know that uh was studying if couples can come back from cheating if the two individuals have a certain type of resilience and uh she's trying trying to prove that they could. And I asked her about it, she's like, the answer is no. That's what I found out is that they can't.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, no, a thousand percent, a thousand percent. And you know, it's really interesting. Like, um, from my own personal experience, I grew up watching my dad cheat on my mom for the entire time that I was alive. And like she turned a blind eye to it. I was not blind to it. I was like, that's weird. What that what that's really That's strange. Like, what is oh, I know what this is now. Okay, I get it. And I'm amazed. Like, they're still together. I know they're miserable. Like, I know that they just they resent each other to the ends of the earth and they have this like toxic, you know, push-pull love relationship kind of thing. Um, but like that, it's it's this like, but there's also the factors of like the dependence and the insecurity and the you know, so on and so forth.
SPEAKER_01
They stack right and there's so like enmeshment, codependency, same words. So many words, so many things that go along with that. Um as to a lot of times why people stay even when they don't want to. Yes, even when they have all of these reasons. And we're not we're not saying that every time somebody cheats, that it it is, you know, cause to leave. Yeah. But a lot of times somebody cheats as almost like the last ditch thing of like I this has not been working for so many years. Protest behavior. Yeah, protest behavior. And as just like I I have no other choice, which is not true. The choice is to leave. One person can always decide to leave.
SPEAKER_02
Yes, usually. But people don't know how to, and that's the usually thing. It's like for for women who came before us, right, for the generations before us, no, that was not an option. Right. Right. It was so and and what we're seeing now is that like as women gain more financial independence and more ability, like they either opt out of relationships entirely or they just they are able to leave in situations where they're like, oh, this is not gonna work, right? But like ultimately, when you're stuck, like when you feel like you are part of a system that is toxic, when you're when you feel like you're part of a toxic system, like you will try to reverberate against the walls of the system, but no matter what, you're still gonna snap back into that homeostasis. You're still going to like people will stay together indefinitely. And the the thing is, once you break that seal and you actually cheat on your partner, it will you're right to say that it will it will never return to the same. There's no way. Like you can't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever take that back. So I want to propose this question. If somebody, and I I hate this fucking question, it's like an impossible word. It's like, do you want the train to run over 10 people or two people? What do you do? But if somebody cheats in a relationship, a drunken one-night stand, a mistake and kiss, a you know, I went a little bit too far, but I remedied this situation immediately and then I never did it again. Should they tell their partner?
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah, I wasn't expecting it to go there. Um philosophically, that's a hard one. Isn't it? Because if you tell your partner, there's a lot of selfish motive in telling your partner because exactly you are try you want to make yourself feel better. Yes. And you're going to make your partner feel like shit for how long?
SPEAKER_02
Ever.
SPEAKER_01
To be honest, that to me is one of the worst parts about cheating is that oftentimes it doesn't make you question the partner that cheated. It doesn't make you question the relationship. It doesn't make you question the person that they cheated with. It makes you question yourself. Absolutely. And you're like, I must have not been good enough. Yes. Or I must have been too much. I'm not pretty enough. I'm not skinny enough. I'm not cool enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not plain too much. I'm too much and I'm not enough. Yes. Yeah. Either or and flip the coin. Yes. And and it'll make them question themselves. So would you want to put that on somebody if you didn't need to? That's it. That is a good question. And that's right. It does. Do the train tracks run over you or do they run over them? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I I I don't know that there's a good answer. I think that that's a good question. I just don't think that there's an answer. Yeah. I do think that if there were to be a, I guess, ideal cheating situation, it would probably be that versus an affair. Yes. Like an affair. Our listeners, what yeah, an affair is. An affair is something that is methodical. It is repeated behavior. It is emotional. It it only has to be emotional. It could be sexual. It is an entire relationship with somebody else in some sort of way. And I I do think that that is so much more it they're both hurtful, but I would say that that's way more hurtful. And sometimes that behavior can be like kind of scary and almost gross. Yeah. Like the like the the measures that somebody will go. And it also says how much somebody can lie to you, how much somebody is okay with lying to your face, how much they can betray you and get away with it. So that's why it can be very scary versus somebody that like got so drunk and you know hooked up with somebody one night and was just like, oh my gosh, I'm such an idiot, you know. Um, it's still bad, but yeah, I I would I personally think that an affair is so much worse than like a drunken hookup.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, exactly. And and like a drunken hookup is often, you know, like when I when I talk about that again, that like relationship system, like it's not enough to puncture the barrier up, right? Really. Like it could be a sign. Yes, it's it is a sign, but like it is an opportunity to take a step back and say, what the fuck is going on and see if you can fix, if you can patch the hole from your side. Yes. Because if you have that opportunity, like obviously, if you if you're going, if you ever get the suspicion that you are going to cheat, it is better to always just like slow yourself down, figure it the fuck out. Like, is this like why are you choosing it? Like, what is going on? Why are you choosing this? Why is this happening? How do you prevent yourself from doing this? Because once you do it, you can't undo it. Yeah. You know, there are certain, there are certain barriers that when you cross them, there is no uncrossing them.
SPEAKER_01
Right. And absolutely. And you don't have to carry that alone.
SPEAKER_02
No.
SPEAKER_01
If you know, you can talk to a therapist or a coach or a friend, or you could tell your partner. You can tell your partner and say, I'm thinking of cheating. And is that something that could be repaired, or are we, am I not meant to be monogamous? Is this or could we open this up? If not, you know, like just at that point it becomes a problem to be solved. Yes. But if you do it and cheat, it is.
SPEAKER_02
You've decided to solve the problem unilaterally, and the problem is you created a new problem. Yes.
SPEAKER_01
You've created so many new problems. Actually, you've created problems within yourself. You've created an an inevitable guilt and shame within yourself. You've created so many problems within the relationship. You've and you've also created a problem within the other person. Exactly. Because the person that you cheat on is almost always going to question themselves and get insecure, which is so upsetting because they didn't do anything wrong. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02
I want to know have you ever cheated or been cheated on? Both. D, all of the above. Which one do you want to share about first?
SPEAKER_01
Well, I did I feel like I did a lot of emotional cheating when I was young. Yeah. And I feel like a huge catalyst for that was just being in too serious of relationships, too young that I you just shouldn't be in that young.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
And wanting to be young at the same time.
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
SPEAKER_01
Like wanting that relationship and the safety and security and you know the partnership and everything that it provided, but also still wanting to be young. I guess like having my cake and eating it too, you know?
SPEAKER_00
A Marie Antoinette moment.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, a Marie Antoinette moment. That makes it sound really nice. It was not. It was a shitty, very much a shitty thing to do. And I used to come up with so many crazy rationales for emotional cheating too, where I was like, oh, like I didn't kiss my lips to his, but I said I love you to him, you know, things like that. Or like I didn't touch him, but we like slept in the same bed together. You know, like there were so many rationales that I made. Yeah. Because I I just said, like, it's fine if this, you know. And I I think that a lot of times people will do that with cheating just to make themselves feel better. Sure. And emotional cheating is just as or even more shitty sometimes than sexual cheating, but I just didn't see it that way when I was younger. And I think you do have to like maybe be a certain age to see that. Yeah. But I didn't realize how badly cheating sucked until I was cheated on. And I guess you can't really until you're cheated on. Like nobody can really explain to you how hurtful it is until it really happens to you. It's devastating.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. It's it's like it's utterly devastating. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. It just like sucks. It just it fucking sucks. It fucking sucks. It actually fucking blows. Yes.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. So crazy story, kind of. Okay. I think it's crazy. I don't know. Um, I think that it's possible that I am a therapist today because I was cheated on.
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that is some lore. Yeah. That is some lore. Yeah. So the lore goes.
SPEAKER_01
I'm gonna try to keep everybody the anonymity of everybody in this. Um, but yeah, was in a relationship for not super long at first, and um had suspected cheating. Other friends of mine too suspected cheating, not even from anything obvious, just from like an intuitive feeling that they got, which just tells me like girlies knowly things. Yes! Yes, that it was exactly like that. Oh my god, it's the girly intuition. It was exactly, it was exactly like that. Yeah, and it sucked, and so I didn't like I didn't find out until I knew that something was wrong, had accused him of it, and he lied about it. And yeah, and you know, made me feel pretty crazy again. I was not an angel either. Let me get that out early. Um but um so yeah, and then I didn't find out, so I'd broken up with him, didn't find out until later on when this person was trying to court me again. And this is so old school. His Facebook was open on my laptop. Yes, and I went through his messages and went through the person that I had accused him of cheating on with and saw all of the messages. Oh, he made such a dumb mistake. Yes. Yeah, and none of us maybe you couldn't delete them back then. I'm not sure. Oh, I well, actually this might have been was is this before deleting was even a thing? Let me not imagine. I can't even say the year because it's gonna give away. Anyways, saw Facebook messages with the person and um, and then yeah, like you know, freaked out, and there's uh so many different things that it made me feel um, obviously, like so much anger towards him, but like so much towards myself. Feeling like, and it was never that I my storyline, my internalized beliefs were never that I was not enough. It was that I was too much. Wow. And that confirmed, and it was very confirmed with the person that he cheated on with. Yeah. It was very much that. Wow. I messaged her, yeah, and she told me what I wanted to know. She she was she was very a girls girl. A girls girl. She was, she was. She was very nice. She didn't know. So she didn't fuck up. She was a girls girl. Yeah, well, she said she was like, I mean, I should have known because of this, this, and this. And people she learned her tried to tell her, you know, whatever people tried to tell me. Like, I get it.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Um so he he goes after the same kind of person who doesn't trust their intuition. I guess so. Yeah. Uh don't all men though. She told me everything that I wanted to know, all that stuff. Um, and uh was perfectly nice. It didn't stop me though, from hating her. Yeah and like feeling like I was in competition with her all of the time.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Because I was like, why, like why her? And it was like a full like relationship too. Um, and I was like, you know, like it just like the math wasn't mathing on why it would happen. Yes. Uh because I think you have these thoughts in your head of like if somebody cheats on you, especially if like a man cheats on a woman, you're like, oh, he's uh cheating on her with somebody who's like ha or somebody that was easy, and like that wasn't her vibe. That that wasn't the situation. So I was kind of like, why? Like, obviously you had feelings, or else you wouldn't have done this. Naturally, and so I was kind of just like, why? And we were very like opposite, yeah. And so it just made me feel like he didn't like anything about me and that like she was like perfect and that like everything about me was bad. Yeah. And I just like hyped this up so much in my mind. I was in a competition with myself, she wasn't in it with me. She had not she they were like nothing by the time I even messaged her. And so I was in this competition by myself, but the way that it maybe potentially be a therapist was she uh was a school teacher. Oh, like preschool or something. And my I was a model. I I mean I was like 21. Um, and I guess she was older, but it was a very Elle Woods moment of me. But I was like, what? Like it's hard. And I was like, what if I just became a teacher?
SPEAKER_00
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01
And I did. Oh my god, this is Lord. Yeah, I literally became a teacher. Wow. Because I was like, watch me, I can do it too. Wow. Yeah, again, in a competition by myself.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but is that like how you discovered your nurturing side?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, well, I I had that before, but definitely like honed in on it. Yeah, and being a teacher is what made me decide to become a therapist.
SPEAKER_02
That is so wild.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I taught eighth grade, and they like I was much better at like helping them with their problems. There were kids trying to take me outside all of the time to talk to me about things going on at home and stuff like that. And even the kids were like, Misty, we love you so much. You're too soft to be a teacher, though. You should be a therapist. Like, you're so good at this. And I was like, You're right. You're so right. You're right. And I had had dreams maybe I would have found it on my own. I had had dreams of becoming a psychologist when I was young, but I just didn't think that I was smart enough. And people told me that I wasn't smart for a long time. So I just you know, believed them, and that was my biggest mistake. But it's possible that I would have gotten to being a therapist on my own, but this definitely pushed it. Not true. And I went to grad school and was graduated from grad school by the time of 25. And I don't know that I would have done it that early on had I not had this experience. Wow. Yeah, because that being a teacher, I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna go to grad school. Should I go for teaching or for being a therapist? And the and then I chose being a therapist. But if I had never had that feeling of like, what, like it's hard. I could be a teacher too. I don't like I don't know if I would have gotten there that fast or at all. Yeah. So being cheated on honestly was like the best thing that probably ever happened to me.
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Wow. So there there was like a whole like karmic transformation arc there. Like there was some, there was some walking from that south node to that north node. Yes. Yes. That is beautiful. Yes. I love that. That's so cool.
SPEAKER_01
That's so cool. But so I guess I'm glad that it I like I'm really glad that it happened. I will say I was never over it in the relationship. No. Because we still dated for a very, very long time after that. What do you think made you stay? Well, we got we had been broken up when I found out and then got back together. It was a lot of courting, got back together. Um it honestly, the relationship was actually probably better when we got back together, but I was never over the cheating, and I brought it up all of the time. All of the time. And it just it never it never went away. It the anger never went away until we broke up.
SPEAKER_02
That's because so like the fact that you wanted to bring it up all the time is like the sign that it wasn't right for you then.
SPEAKER_01
Yes. Yeah. It was that that probably that it wasn't right and I knew. And also like I needed to know why, and I was never really given a reason other than this, which is actually what my uh second book is kind of based off of is this belief. But um, I asked, I was like, why her, like why this specific person.
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
And um he said he was like, Oh, she I don't know, she's just like nice. And I was like, What what? And I was like, and I'm what? He's like, No, you're the nicest person uh ever. You're like the most empathetic person. I was like, so then what do you he's like, no, nice isn't the word I'm looking for. I was like, then what's what's the word? And he was like, just like simple and like innocent. Innocent. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And that was like that just like hit me like a fucking truck because like, in a sense, as we talked about this, in a sense, it's not a choice.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
And it was taken from me. So for somebody, it's uh and I know he wasn't trying to talk about me, but it felt like he was talking about me, that I am not innocent. And there's nothing that I can fucking do about that.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
I was trying to fix that, and it can't be fixed.
SPEAKER_02
Trying to fit yourself into a box that wasn't enough for you to fit into.
SPEAKER_01
Exactly. And I can't be simple either. And I definitely don't want to be simple. I'm I'm glad that I'm not, you know, now. And but there there's we innocence is just a lack of experience. And I couldn't do anything about the experiences that I didn't choose to fucking have.
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01
You know, and I'm again I'm not saying that anybody was trying to hurt me like this, but I'm big on words, and that like ruined like my life, honestly. You know, and like myself, not it didn't ruin my life. That's so dramatic. It ruined No, I love it. It's like fuck this guy. I'm so emo. No, it it ruined my self-concept though, for the time being. And it but it also forced me to really, really like hone in on who I was. I wasn't just like, I'm just, I just suck, and I'm just gonna suck, and I'm just gonna not be good enough for anybody. I was like, let me be the fucking best there fucking is. Yeah. And let it, you let it fuel your fire. It fueled my fire. And not saying that that's healthy, but it did lead to like a very look at developed self-concept. Yes.
SPEAKER_02
Literally, that's now that guy cheated on you, and now we have a podcast about being hot and having psychology. Exactly. Like, what the fuck? The stars aligned.
SPEAKER_01
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's lore. And you know what? We were always fucking hot and we always had fucking psychology, but it took a lot of shit to get us here.
SPEAKER_02
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. What a good story. Yeah, thanks. Of course.
SPEAKER_01
Okay. Yes. Tell me about you. Oh, have you cheated and have you been cheated on? Yes to both. Okay. Yes to both.
SPEAKER_02
So um uh which one do I I'll I'll start with Have I been cheated on? So, yes, I have. Um, the very first guy when I was like in high school, actually, the first person I lost my virginity to cheated on me. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's like devastating. It's terrible. Oh, it was so bad. What a nice school. He was terrible. It was like a week later, I was devastated. It broke my heart. It was so bad. No, no. It was really bad. Then um, then uh I so as I as I said earlier, my dad cheated on my mom my entire childhood, and it is so obvious that he did to me. To me, it is obvious to her. I'm not sure if she's ever admitted it to herself. To him, he will um narcissistically erase it from his memory for you know how he's gonna be. Of course. I love that. Yeah, love that. But um, so I just thought that was normal. I was just like, okay, men cheat on women. I assume women cheat on men, such is life, so be it. Um, so you know, first boyfriend cheated on me, and then I um like it like and I'm saying like, you know, really young, like teenager age, like cheated on boyfriends then kind of thing. Um and then I got married and I was totally faithful for the majority of the marriage until I had brought up problems that I had over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again for the better part of a decade, and nothing got better, and I was fully financially dependent on him. And he um like just nothing ever got better. And then I I just started to develop complex PTSD from like I started to show signs of it from my childhood. And so I re so I cheated on him with an ex boyfriend from my childhood. Yeah, so it was like a very contained thing. Yes, but you went with what you knew. It was really strange. It was really weird. Um, it was a really weird thing. I admitted it to him. He wanted to work it through. We tried, it didn't work, tried again, didn't work. Um, I said, this, I'm, I'm, we just can't, like I can't. Like I'm, I'm, I want I I uh adore you and care about you, but like this just isn't working. And like the cheating is the point where things need to stop. So I'm going to walk away. And I haven't cheated on anybody since then. Uh-huh. I've been in like multiple relationships since then. But it like it was at that point that I realized if I don't get my own level of independence, if I don't, you know, like have one my own income or, you know, to my own like freedom, um, then I am that pressure cooker trying to push a hole into the boundary of the system. Yeah. And that like dependence and that um like the the being trapped, the protest behavior, like that was my thing. So historically, when I did do that, it was because I was in a situation that I felt like I couldn't get out of. And that was my way of trying to release some of the pressure. Yeah. Yeah. So in terms of me being cheated on, so I do, I I'm pretty sure as an adult, I'm pretty sure I um was cheated on. I definitely so there there was the guy who like had said that he like loved his ex-girlfriend because she survived a forest fire or something. And she didn't even survive a forest fire. Like it wasn't it wasn't even like that. Like she didn't even live near she lived near ish it, but like not actually like you know, it was like one of the LA forest fires. Like she was fine. She was she was fine. Yeah, she was she was just like you know, tugging on his heartstrings and he was like, um, you know how you know how it is. And um, so so that happened, and then I'm pretty sure the I I'm pretty sure there was like emotional cheating in one of the relationships that I was in. Um, the the murder guy, the guy who tried to kill me. I'm pretty sure he was doing he was doing something. I don't know, something was weird. Um, I can't confirm or deny what it was. I just know something was very off, and my intuition said as much, and I was just like, well, this fucking sucks. I had a a boyfriend in high school who cheated on me with um some random girl he found online, and then another random girl he found online. And I was just like, okay, this isn't for me. Um but outside of that, it's it's kind of just been like the the major incidents were like when I was when I lost my virginity and then the guy cheated on me like a m a week later and it was just like too much, and I was like, you know, whatever. And then um, like me cheating on in in my marriage. Um like there were you know, little like kiss somebody, do this kind of thing, whatever. Like micro cheating. Micro cheating, yeah, micro cheating and other situations, but I haven't micro cheated in either since that since my marriage. Like I there's nothing I've done that's cheating since um I had been married. Like I I learned, I learned my lesson after that time. I was like, this is not not good things come from this. Not good things come from cheating. And I don't I don't want not good things for me. I want good things for me. So I'm not gonna do this ever fucking again. Yeah, and I learned.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah. That makes so much sense.
unknown
Yes.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and no, good things don't come from cheating. No, you don't.
SPEAKER_02
Nothing good came from it.
SPEAKER_01
In case you're wondering if you should or should not, let us just just like you should not let you shouldn't. You shouldn't, you should question why you want to, but you absolutely should not. You will never feel good about yourself. You're just you're gonna ruin everybody's self-esteem, including your own.
SPEAKER_02
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And like the thing is, you know, when and it was because I had been faithful for that whole duration of my marriage and then suddenly cheated. I was like, what the fuck is going on? Like, why the fuck is this happening? This is absurd. I like because I I never thought about anything for that entire duration, nothing. Like I was like pure of heart, absolutely just like, oh my God, this is the person, like forever cut sort of thing. And then I was like, why the fuck? Why the fuck was I like so loyal and yes and everything? And then suddenly I don't feel that way. What the fuck is going on? And then I started, you know, going through my childhood and going through all the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, doing all the healing and things like that. Yeah. And then that was when I was like, okay, I just, I, this isn't like I can't be in this relationship. Like, once a person cheats, it is a good indicator that something has met his expiration date. Yeah. And it is up to you to honor that. If you make that mistake without hurting your partner and telling them, like if you make that mistake once, it is up to you to have the adult attitude to recognize one, that you're doing it, two, why you're doing it, three, that you need to stop doing it, four to get yourself in a new situation. Yeah. That is not where you can continue to cheat.
SPEAKER_01
Yes. Yeah. For sure. Yes. I think that a lot of people have an issue with admitting what they're doing because there's so much shame surrounding cheating. Yeah. That they're like, okay, if I admit that I'm cheating, I am admitting that I am a bad person.
SPEAKER_02
And not only are they admitting that they're a bad person, they admit that they like they're they're they are leaving it up to the other person to decide.
SPEAKER_01
To decide who they are. Yeah. What happened. Right. To decide what happened. And to decide if I'm forgiven, I'm a good person. If I'm not, then I'm a bad person. Exactly. And that's just not true. Yeah, not even a little bit. And that's why there doesn't need to be so much shame surrounding it. I don't think that the shame is helpful. I think that's the shame keeps you stuck in the situation. It does. It keeps you stuck in the situation just because you cheat does not make you a horrible person. No. But it is a shitty thing to do.
SPEAKER_02
It is a shitty thing to do and it is a shitty thing to cheat and not figure out why you did it and yourself. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's the big thing is like if you cheat, it should, it should give you pause that makes you say, why am I doing this? Yes. Because it is not, we don't live under a rock where the majority of us know cheating is not good. So if you do it, you you really like it really the onus is on you to take a step back and ask yourself, what the fuck? Yeah. Like what the fuck? Like what how did this happen? Yeah. So I have a question. Yeah. What are some signs that people are cheating?
SPEAKER_01
Oh, such a good question. One of my biggest ones. My biggest signs for pe so anybody watching is I don't have a phone. Okay. Oh yes. Somebody, it's the phone. The phone is the biggest sign, honestly. But it's somebody like say like I'll put the corner and I'm like, well.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. Yes. Or like it's it's always face down. It's always in another room. Yes. Take it with you to the bathroom.
SPEAKER_01
Yes. You don't know. Well, a lot of people take their phones to the bathroom. So that's yeah. But but um it's it if you don't know your partner's passcode, yeah, and they won't let you know their passcode. Again, everyone's different with their boundaries, but I I wouldn't say it's a red flag, but it's not a green one. Um or if they're like, why are you looking at my phone?
SPEAKER_02
Why are you looking over my shoulder? Why are you peeking over my phone? Like almost like kind of like paranoia.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, making you feel crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Huge, yes. Anything with the fucking phone. Yes. Um honestly, it shouldn't be them, but like that's how that's where we are right now. But uh yes, any anything with the phone is is a big one. What what are some signs that you've seen?
SPEAKER_02
Um so so somebody trying somebody who's used to a partner that doesn't pay attention will start to give you little signs. They'll start to tell you little things that like, you know, sort of tell them the people will tell on themselves. Yeah. Right. So, like that, for example, like the guy being like, Oh, I I told my my ex-girlfriend I loved her. And I was like, that's like game recognized game. Like, why are you telling me this? What like have you can you take a step back and ask yourself, why am I gonna tell somebody who I don't know that well who I'm trying to build a relationship with that this just happened? Right. Why would I be doing this? Because you're trying to hide it, you know, like you're trying, you're trying to gauge my reaction, you're trying to see is this about that kind of thing. So, like that's a sign. If if somebody says something in your little feelers go, What? That's weird. That's weird. What is that? I don't know what that is. That's weird. Like, listen to that. Listen to that intuition. Intuition.
SPEAKER_01
Intuition is everything. Intuition is a huge, huge thing. I will say sometimes it's hard to recognize uh intuition versus insecurity paranoia and a trauma response because some people who have been cheated on are going, I know many people that are in very with very good people now and who would never cheat, and they have so much paranoia, and that person is kind of paying the price of the people that they were with in the past, which is absolutely upsetting. It is so sometimes it can be hard to um recognize which is which. Yes. So just really sit with that. Like, is this intuition or is this a trauma response?
SPEAKER_02
And one of the things that also you need to pay attention to is if your partner is always accusing you of cheating. Yes, always accusing you of cheating, yes, that is a goddamn good sign that either one they have the capacity to cheat, or two they have or are.
SPEAKER_01
Yes. Yes, yeah, yeah, completely completely agree. It's projection, projection. Weirdo loser projection. Yes, yes, 100%. Yeah. Also, uh changes in sex life. Yes. So an obvious, yeah, sudden changes in sex life. An obvious one would be, you know, not having sex at all. But I've also heard people it who are like having affairs or cheating, that they start having yeah, it ramps up.
SPEAKER_02
Or they start doing like more unique things or they start getting more adventurous, or like, oh, I want to do it this way. And they've like, you know, like, or they learn new tricks. Like, where'd you learn that?
SPEAKER_01
Yes. I've heard people say, Oh, I had sex with them, and then I got home and had sex with them because I wanted to erase the sex that I had earlier.
SPEAKER_02
Yes, which is so that's that's like a a special level of nasty and not cool. I've heard it a lot. I know. It's a really, it's really common. Yeah, it's just not ideal.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it's also unsafe.
SPEAKER_02
It's very unsafe. That's what I'm saying. It's like a special level of nasty and not cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like so that's that's when people like changing the way that they look. People start taking better care of themselves all of a sudden. I'm going to the gym, I'm using hair, I'm skipping men specifically.
SPEAKER_01
Like you have these like cavemen who like just women, yes, women don't need that, like to start taking care of themselves. Like women only need to just like see a bad photo of themselves. And they're like, you know what? I'm changing everything about myself. But yeah, a lot of times I yeah, men, like, yeah, when they start dressing differently, whoa, yes. Wow, you were in cologne. Why? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
Or like when they, you know, and then then there's like obvious signs like why do you have glitter on you? Why do you smell like that? Like those kinds, yeah. Also, like, you know, finding like a bobby pin or like a hairpin or a stick or like something like that, um, in in somebody's car or like, you know, at their house or something. Um what are some signs that you are the other woman?
SPEAKER_01
Ooh. You know what? I actually went to somebody's house once and I was like, oh sh I I have never been the other girl, the other woman, to my knowledge.
SPEAKER_02
Really?
SPEAKER_01
And I've always like prided myself on that. Like, and again, this is my logic, but I was like, I will blow up my own relationship. I will never do that to another girl because I'm like, I'm too much of a girl's girl, you know, whatever it is. But um I was on a second date with this dude, and I went to his place, and he, I guess, didn't clean up before we got there. There was an ID on the uh dresser, and he just like immediately like put it in a drawer. And uh, and again, we were like stuck, we like went to brunch and then we were just stopping in at his place and then going somewhere else. It wasn't like we were gonna have a one-night stand or anything. And then I went to the bathroom and he's like, Oh, you really have to go? And I was like, Yeah, you really have to go. What kind of fucking question is that? Literally, yeah. And I was like, It's like we lived in New York, it's like 10 blocks, the next bar. And I was like, Yeah, I really have to fucking go. Went to the bathroom and I saw tampons and I asked him why are there tampons in there? And um, and then he was like, Oh, yeah, my cousin lives here and it was a studio apartment.
SPEAKER_02
Wow, so crazy that you're fucking your cousin.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly. New York, not Kentucky, do you? Yeah. And so I I was just like, Yeah, and I was like, Yeah, you he like totally had a girlfriend. And then he was so weird the rest of the day. Like we we went and met up with my friends. Of course he was weird. Um yeah, and then I j I ghosted, he kept like texting and was like, so attachment. Yeah, and again, I I wouldn't ghost somebody now, but um, and I don't need to, I'm married, but so I just ghosted him because that was easier than being like, Hey, I think you definitely have a girlfriend and that's wrong. Oh my god, which I recommend for anybody else, like call them out on that shit. But I just I just ghosted him. Yeah, but yeah, that was that was my only experience. But those were the signs. It was literally easy, it was tampons, it was like women female things.
SPEAKER_02
Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, yes. The only time that I was ever the other woman, the person had told me that um he and his partner had were like uh basically only together for their child and that they didn't even sleep in the same bed or in the same room, and like they basically were like roommates and like all this stuff. Um, and when she found out it was not, it was very obvious that was not true. It was very obvious that she did not feel that way about him. Oh shit. Yeah. And so, like, and she was So he lied. Oh, yeah. I mean, like maybe it was not, maybe they weren't like, you know, together the same way. Like maybe like maybe they were not like they probably still were not like sleeping in the same bed and stuff like that. But his emotional view of the relationship versus hers. Yes, she was shocked. And he made it sound like objective, like this is the thing. Yes, yes. And he had told me like he had cheated on her in the past and gotten caught and all this stuff. And I was like, oh, okay. So, like, you know, this is like your thing. Like, what the fuck? Um, you know, and like it just, I don't know, very odd, very odd. But yeah, I feel like the the but the little signs of just like this is this is more significant than you're making it out to be.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, you know, yes, yeah, but it's not always be weary. Always be weary of that, of like of your intuition of if somebody the story that they're telling about their person, a lot of times they'll be like, Oh, um, yeah, like we're not together at all. Maybe we're legally married, whatever it is. We're in an open relationship, yes. Yes. This this is also why stalking is good. Yeah. When uh so sorry, take stalking is good. Uh social media stalking. When you first get in a relationship with somebody, like stock like the photos that they're tagged in. That like, you know, and go on the are we dating the same guy? Yes, yes. I I know so many people that have found out that way that they were dating somebody that somebody else was dating, you know, or like they'd like had a mutual friend and they're just like, yeah, he's in both of your photos. That's so interesting, you know. Yes. And so like uh lean on your other, like lean on your people too. Lean on your girlies. Yeah, lean on your girlies to help you stalk. But yeah, definitely stalk the shit out of them on social media. Find like I if I'm dating you, like I'll know your fucking aunt's name, like I'll know, like I know everything about your ex. Like, don't even, yeah, don't even tell me. Um as you should.
SPEAKER_02
As you should. Yes. Yes, absolutely. What do you think are some ways that people can prevent cheating in relationships?
SPEAKER_01
It's hard because a lot of times we want to be like, oh, how do I prevent being cheated on? And that's not healthy. Right. Because when you when you think that way, you're like, okay, I just need to be the perfect person. Yes. And then I'll never be cheated on. I repeat, Beyonce was cheated on. Yes. So it it tells you something. So you can't prevent being cheated on. You can definitely prevent cheating on somebody because that's a choice and a behavior. But as a relationship, just making sure that they're doing whatever you can to make sure that there's no cheating. Again, it's not a definite.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Um it is not a definite. Sometimes people are serial cheaters, sometimes they're narcissists, sometimes uh they're insecure and they have wounds that you have no idea about that you cannot solve for them. So there are things that are predict. Yeah. So you can't predict. And so there are things that are out of your control. However, what is in your control is keeping spark alive, which means keeping like not even spark, but just I don't even like that word spark, but just like keeping connection alive, which means having alone time, having shared meaning.
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
SPEAKER_01
So that's a Gottman thing as well. But so making sure that you guys have common interests, things that you can do together, things that you can talk about together, um, and keeping that going and like going on date nights, like it can honestly be as simple as that. Making sure that everybody is sexually satisfied. Yes. And if they're not figuring that out, and sometimes that does look like opening it up, and that might be a hard choice to have is like, do we open it up or do we cheat or you know, part ways. So having the hard conversations, actually, is having hard conversations. Yeah, having hard conversations about like what you're happy with and what you're not happy with, and continuing to do that, having check-ins. I always tell couples to do that, even the happiest couples have check-ins of like where are we doing great? How can we do better? What are goals individually? What are goals together? You know, and it's a fun thing. Like, I like we do it as like a date night activity. Like it's cute. Yeah, like it's it's such a we have like little like booklets that we'll write in. That's cute. Yeah. Yeah, we'll do it for like seasons of like summer goals, like individually, and then we'll do like career, like our relationship, and it's like a lot of like date nights and like ideas for those. Yeah, I'm gonna write that down. Yeah. What do you think?
SPEAKER_02
What are what are some what are some prevention ways that you can prevent yourself from cheating, right? Like you talked about sort of some of like so a person can present them a prevent present, prevent themselves from cheating by telling their partner that they are thinking about it for one, if it's something that they need support with. If it's not something that you need support with, you go and you get therapy for it and you talk about it. You talk about with your friends, talk about you know, talk about with people who you trust, like not people who are gonna go and like yap or whatever, or go tell your partner, but like try to figure out why you have this desire and be willing to be honest with yourself if something has met its expiration date. Like truly, genuinely be willing. Don't put yourself in a situation where you can't walk away if something has died already. Yes. Like, and that that's that is hard to do for a lot of people. Uh but it's a choice, it's an act of choice to not trap yourself in a box where you will end up doing something that you regret. Yeah. Yeah. But ultimately, if you want to prevent cheating, find out why you do it in the first place. Yes.
SPEAKER_01
100%. That is the biggest thing when it comes to repairing. Yes. Which was like one of the last things that I know we wanted to talk about is how to repair if you have cheated or if your partner has cheated. And it is to find out why. Yes. I do a lot of couples therapy. Yes. And something that I've found with couples that have had infidelity is that the one that cheated oftentimes is like, I don't want to go back. I don't want to go back. What's the point of that? You know, and I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And the other partner and I have to explain, we need to go back. Yes. We need to know the details. We need to understand why you did it to make sure that it won't happen again. And like the partner that you cheated on needs to know. And most importantly, you need to know. If you don't know, it most likely will happen again.
SPEAKER_02
Either with them, with someone else, like no matter what, it will repeat itself.
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah. History repeats itself until you decide to interrupt it.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, 100%. And that's kind of the question like people are always talking about like once a cheater, always a cheater. And it's like, is that true? I think no, but it's like if you don't do the work, that's without a doubt.
SPEAKER_02
Without a doubt. Yes, exactly. And that's that's you're right, that the once a cheater, always a cheater will always be the truth until you figure out why you're cheating. Yes. And then you because you have to consciously make the choice to not be a cheater. Like some people, they unconsciously fall into cheating. And that is just like what they started with. You have to consciously make the choice to pull yourself out of that. Yes. You have to consciously make the choice to be different. Yeah. And the only way you can do that is by figuring out what went wrong in the first place.
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. Yeah. Completely agree. Completely agree. And I think that that's so important for you to figure out. And I think you need to tell your partner. I've also I've had um I've had clients and couples where the partner doesn't want to know anything about it and doesn't want to talk about it. The person that's been cheated on. Yeah. And they just keep going. And sometimes the person that's cheated is like, Are you do you care? Are you mad? Yeah. And then they did do it again. Of course they did. In uh literally everybody that I've seen, pretty much, because why wouldn't they?
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, because they could get away with it the first time. Why wouldn't you do a second time? And like also again, some of the protest is behavior is like do you think protest behavior?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah. Do you care? Like, do you care? Why don't you wanna know? And do you are you curious about me? And yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
Yes. Like, and and that's it's you know, it's it's on the onus of the person who did it to find out why they did it. But at the end of the day, like sometimes they do it because they want to figure out why they did it with their partner. You know? Yes. Which is like fucked up and like that, you know, that's that's its own can of worms, but that's still a valid reason why people do it.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and I highly recommend couples therapy. Always. If you've cheated or your partner has cheated, definitely couples therapy. I think that that is just such a not only is it a great way to talk about everything, but it'll force you to talk about everything. And the couples therapist will make you talk about the things that you don't want to talk about or that your partner feels defensive on when it's just the two of you. And so I think that that's important. I think it's also important to ask yourself if monogamy is for you and you know, maybe be open to other ideas and with with you and your partner and and just have literally conversation. I just feel like communicate. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Communicate.
SPEAKER_01
And it's uncomfortable and like I know that it sucks. But that's the whole point of a relationship.
SPEAKER_02
It's like you are like two people get together so they can become more than what they are individually. And becoming more is uncomfortable. Like it is because there's otherness of the person. Exactly. So today we talked about what cheating is, what it looks like, what causes it, um, what are the signs that it's happening? Like, have we done it? Like we talked about our personal experiences, um, what couples can do if they're faced with cheating, or what a person can do if they're faced with cheating, if they're the cheater, if they're the cheaty. What do you feel like is your biggest takeaway from today?
SPEAKER_01
Good question. My biggest takeaway is if you have been cheated on, don't let it ruin who you are. Don't don't allow it to ruin your self-concept and your security within yourself. Question the relationship, question the compatibility, and very much question your partner.
SPEAKER_02
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01
And you know, don't not the person that they cheated with, that's not the villain. I know it's easy to make the person that they cheated with the villain, but what you should really be considering is the relationship and the partner that cheated. It doesn't make you less, it doesn't mean that you are too much, and it doesn't mean that you are not enough.
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. So so don't internalize it when you have done nothing wrong.
SPEAKER_02
I love that.
SPEAKER_01
What about you?
SPEAKER_02
I feel like my big takeaway is if you are a person who cheats or feels like cheating, you have to figure out why. You have to like you are being presented from the universe an opportunity to get to know yourself better. And the onus is on you to take that opportunity to get to know yourself better rather than to continue to hurt people, as well as hurting yourself. Because it's not as though cheating just only hurts the other person. It hurts you too, even if you don't admit it. Yes. And the best thing that you can do if you are that person, because in the relationship, there's a cheater and cheaty. If you are the person who cheats, find out why. Yes. Understand why, because that is how you break the cycle. And the cycle will continue until you interrupt it. Yes. Tune in with us next time for the rest of season two. We have a lot of really fun topics for you this season. Thank you so much for being here with us and thank you for listening. And we will see you in two weeks. Yes. Love you, girlies. Bye, girlies. Bye.