How To Play The Dating Game
In this episode of the Hot Girl Psychology podcast, the girlies teach you an important fundamental of dating and relationships: how to play the game. In this episode, Deanna & Emahlea explore a darker side of psychology by explaining what the game is, how to know when someone is playing it, how to protect yourself in it, how to be the best player, and most importantly, how to walk away from the game when it stops being fun.
If you’re looking to learn about dating games, mind games, and how & why we play them, this episode is for you.
SPEAKER_00
with men to never talk badly about your ex. If you're dating a man and you're talking about how another man has treated you bad, that can inadvertently give him permission to also treat you bad because he knows that your standards are going to be low. Versus if you say that my ex treated me really well and, you know, blah, blah, blah. Men love competition. So they will see that and be like, well, I need to treat her better. It's like giving them some sort of standard. Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05
Welcome to Hot Girl Psychology. We're a Girls Girl podcast where attractiveness meets attachment wounds. Here at Hot Girl Psychology, we believe that the darkest parts of your mind are the sexiest. I'm Emily. I'm a startup founder and CEO and I put the psycho and psychonutritionist.
SPEAKER_00
And I'm Deanna. I'm a clinical psychotherapist, published dark romance author, and recovering people pleaser. I treat complex trauma by day and I live it by night. What's up girlies? So today we're talking about Drem World playing the game. How to play the goddamn the game. We love the game.
SPEAKER_05
Do we love the game? Are you do you love the game? Do you love the player, hate the game?
SPEAKER_00
Hate the game so I don't love the game. No. But I love being good at the game. I love being good at the game too. Yeah. Yeah. So when we talk about the game, it's not just like the game of life we're not talking about how to win the game of life or how to be successful necessarily. I think we're talking about relationally how to how to get what you want in relation to other people. Yes. And how to not be manipulated, fucked over or controlled by other people. Absolutely. So I don't find myself playing the game as much as I used to because I don't often find myself around people that hold cards that I want or like hold the keys to what I want in life. That being said, I'll start to play the game when I've noticed that somebody else has started to play the game. Yeah. And I'm like, you started it now we're playing Monopoly. Let's go bitch. Ooh I like that. I like playing Twister and I'm more flexible than fucking anybody.
unknown
Oh my God.
SPEAKER_05
I love that. That's awesome. Oh that's really great. I love that. Yeah I feel like it's not something that I'm really uh I don't openly participate in. I oh man, I used to holy shit. Like I didn't realize that I didn't realize that relationships didn't have to be toxic, you know? Yeah. Um and it just like some interactions didn't have to be toxic either. And so I spent a lot of time learning how to not uh overly engage in the game. But man, when somebody when somebody opens themselves up to it it's very hard to resist when they're like hey you want to play and I'm like uh oh yes I'm crazier than they are and they don't realize that yes yeah that's kind of the issue.
SPEAKER_00
It's also when people they start playing the game and they think that they can beat you.
SPEAKER_06
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
There's like this competitive side that comes out and it's like oh baby you thought you thought exactly that's what I think like that is my my biggest tip to playing the game to anybody is never let anybody else know how well you play the game. Ooh I love that I honestly think that my biggest power in life one of my biggest powers in life is being underestimated. Yeah and people thinking that I don't know ball.
SPEAKER_05
I'm like really impressed that people underestimate you. That's like stupid that's like low-key really dumb it's wild.
SPEAKER_00
I a lot of people do and I don't because I I mean I don't flex my knowledge I no but you look smart bitch. I don't I don't dress to like look smart. I don't you know what I mean but yeah but you look smart regardless.
SPEAKER_05
I don't know how to explain it.
SPEAKER_00
I think that you think that just because we know each other and we and you're also just intuitive and we like I think that we just had a connection where we kind of knew who each other was before really knowing.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And that's intuition style it's a lot of things that we've talked about.
SPEAKER_05
I don't feel like we play the game with each other. I think that's what it is.
SPEAKER_00
No well because we don't have to because no there's there's no game to be played there's no reason there's no reason to play one.
SPEAKER_06
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
And in most things there is no reason to play one.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
Which is why when someone starts to play one I'm like oh hilarious let's go you know absolutely oh absolutely yeah yeah no it's it's pretty I'm I kind of I feel like I give off a vibe of like don't fuck with me right now. And I I I feel like I've maybe always given off that vibe. Um and people don't often invite themselves to play the game with me. Um they don't put themselves in a position because I I genuinely think I kind of scare the shit out of people a lot of the time. But I do feel like the exposure to people who are just out to try to fuck somebody's shit up I have somehow managed to decrease that pretty significantly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. Yeah. The people that are just out to fuck people's shit up, those are the people that I want to play the game with just to teach them a lesson. Yeah. Because first of all, fuck you. Second of all you have way too much time on your hands. And they'll go likely go after people that they think are weaker than them.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And a lot of times I think that I because I'm soft because I'm feminine because I look a certain way I actually don't think that I intimidate people like the way that you're talking about I wish I did. Sometimes I mean just no I I don't wish that I intimidated peop people. I wish that I intimidated men that wanted to hit on me. Yeah that's about it. I think that that's like a universal for most women but I I do think that initially I seem inviting even when I don't feel that way.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And I think that sometimes that can and empathy can be seen as weakness. So when people do try to fuck with me sometimes I kind of love it. And I'm like Yeah. All right somebody had to teach you this lesson. It might as well be me if I have time. If I have time I'm I'm a busy I'm a busy bitch I love that I love that.
SPEAKER_05
So you're like you like kind of you're like a little cat playing with its prey before you eat it it sounds like yeah only only if somebody starts it. Yeah you like pretend not to be like able to do that but then when the moment comes you're like guess what I'm fucking here.
SPEAKER_00
Yes. On our power episode we talked about quiet power. Yes. And that very much goes to that quiet power of not flexing not telling anybody who you are and so I won't necessarily make it known how much I know and how much I can do until I feel like it's the right time.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
You know and then when it if it ever does become the right time and I do reveal what I have a lot of times it is like knowledge, merit talent versus the person who is loud about who they are versus the person that is flexing all of the time that is trying to beat into you how awesome they are, how smart they are how cool and we we know these people that's kind of that loud power that we were talking about in that episode as well and sometimes that works but most of the time on a smaller scale like in the day to day it doesn't work.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Despite what you see in the media I'll say yeah yeah that makes perfect sense. So if you're somebody who isn't not used to playing the game maybe is new to the game how do you know if somebody else is trying to play you how do you know if somebody else has started the game without you so basically how to not be naive yes yes I love that so the problem is you never know the first time because you are naive and then the first time happens and then you're good.
SPEAKER_05
Then it becomes a choice to be naive right well if you're exposed to the fact that it's happening. So a lot of times it's just learning how to when I teach it to people just pay attention to your body like listen to if your body is getting too excited if your body is getting too overwhelmed if your body says no if your body says yes way too loud if you've never felt a yes like this before kind of thing that's how you cannot be naive if you're playing the game in a relationship. If you're playing the game like with a random person just if they're coming at you just walk away.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah yeah decide if it's worth it yeah you don't always need to play the game.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah yeah absolutely yeah like who are the people that that like you envision playing the game with the most in general a lot of times it is people that I'm not as close to or people that I collaborate with.
SPEAKER_00
And I I say collaborate more than do business with. I'm a therapist I don't see this in that field. Yeah therapists just don't really do that. Yeah no not at all. But um but when you're outside of that field. Yes when I do anything with people in regards to book stuff, social media stuff, any type of collaboration that I do but also just strangers, even talking to friends sometimes I can notice when somebody is trying to play some sort of game where when their intentions aren't pure even in conversation I can tell if somebody is talking to me and they're asking me questions out of genuine curiosity concern or if they have some sort of ulterior motive. And I usually don't call it out unless I feel like that would be beneficial. But um mindfulness mindfulness is the biggest key to playing the game it is absolutely the biggest key keeping calm yep not being messy and being intentional. We talk about intentionality so much so much. But I I do feel like I can tell if somebody is not being genuine a lot of times and this is just something to look out for in your day to day for people that might be trying to play the game. So this can be a friend relationship uh somebody at work yeah if they're asking you a bunch of questions and it doesn't seem out of curiosity or concern maybe they're asking you to have a piece of gossip.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Or maybe they're asking you questions so that they can use the information against you later. Yeah. Or maybe they're asking you questions in order to have some sort of aha moment to try to like solve your problem for you. Yeah. So that you see them in a certain way.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
You know?
SPEAKER_05
Yeah trying to gain the upper hand in some form.
SPEAKER_00
Yes, exactly. They're trying to have some sort of gotcha moment or they're trying to take your vulnerability and use it as a way to put you down. Like you tell them something small and then they use that as just a very subtle way to put you down a very subtle form of bullying that is somebody that is trying to play you.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
They are trying to play the game. Yeah yeah absolutely I will actually test people sometimes to see if I can be vulnerable with them or not. And I'll give them a very low stakes piece of vulnerability and I'll see what they do with it.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And then I will base every other interaction that I have with them on that.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
To me this is a way of protecting myself without I don't like confrontation. And that is and I I think that that's great. And I I think I think you do or you don't like it. And sometimes people you know do like it for a certain time or don't like it for a certain time or you know whatever it is. But I really really value peace and I'm not going to add any type of chaos to my life just because the other person sucks.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
So that's why I choose to be tactful about everything that I do versus calling somebody out and maybe starting a fight because I choose to not have fights. I grew up in a really really toxic household where fighting was the only thing that happened. So I've made a conscious choice to not do that and to never be that person to not be adversarial and to not be aggressive. And so I'm not going to ever let anybody do that to me or make me feel like I need to be aggressive. If somebody makes me feel like I need to be aggressive they're making feel like I can't be myself and like at that point like I shouldn't be around them.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And you should never be around somebody that's going to like really make you go against your values. Yeah. Even if they're related to you.
SPEAKER_05
Absolutely absolutely that's so true. And like that's why that's why I'm like no contact with my family. Because like I just I I tend I really do tend to eliminate people from my life who just play the game. Because it's just not how I love spending my time. It's not something that I want to waste my energy on because the problem is like I have so much energy that if I am playing the game if I'm engaging with it, if somebody knows how to bait me correctly which can happen easily if you can happen to anybody. Yeah. I mean it happened pretty easily when people knew me for a super long time. So that's kind of why I don't have contact with my parents.
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
But like being baited and being pushed kind of thing being provoked I just can't do it. I don't like it. It doesn't make me happy it just makes me like a psycho bitch and I can't stand that shit. So I just won't I just won't do it. I don't like being a psycho bitch. Um so I just don't put myself in psycho bitch situations anymore.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah yeah yeah that and that's a really good thing to bring up is people that seem like they're constantly trying to push you. Yeah like that is a huge red flag. That is somebody that's trying to play with you. Absolutely if they keep trying to push you if they keep trying to test your boundaries if you've yes made a boundary they keep going that is somebody that is trying to play you somebody that tries to put you down especially subtly you don't need that in your life and also but on the contrary to that somebody that love bombs you somebody that gives you like excessive compliments all the time or you know that Sour Patch commercial where it's like first they're sour, then they're sweet. Yeah. You know I joke around that my cats like that, but it's people that do that. They'll like throw an insult in there and then a compliment and you're just like what the fuck just happened?
SPEAKER_05
Yeah oh my God the only the only Southern boy I've ever dated did that.
SPEAKER_00
And I really it was like very yeah it was very did he dress the insults up with like Southern charm and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah they were like subtly slipped into things. Yeah yeah like very subtly slipped into things and they were like kind of like little teasy jokes that were just like not very funny at all. Yeah. And it was like it's very mind spiraling you're like what the fuck? Yeah. And that see that's the thing like but being exposed to that kind of shit I can't because psycho bitch Emily comes out and she she she's so crazy I can't let her come out.
SPEAKER_00
I just can't yeah and you're like I'm winning the game because of destroying the game. No I'm like literally like I will not play this fucking game with you.
SPEAKER_05
I will not do it anyway I will not do these games. Tearing up the chessboard. Exactly I won't play these fucking games because it's just that it brings out a side of me that always wins and it's not good when I win. Yeah it's it's really bad when I win I hate that for people but yeah I always end up winning. So don't like I don't want to play it because I I go nuclear.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah yeah yeah absolutely that makes a lot of sense I know right it's somebody too like you mentioned him like making like subtle little jokes. Somebody that makes jokes at your expense oftentimes is probably trying to play you in some way or their punching bag and don't ever be somebody's punching bag. Whether it's a partner a family member a friend like somebody in your friend group I've seen this so many times and it's it's so it's so sad. But a joke that isn't funny is just a statement so like people can't just be like oh it's just joking. No like you just said something mean and you're saying you're hiding behind humor but if it wasn't funny then it's not humor. You know what I mean? Yeah. Something else that I actually learned from a boss that I had a while ago that was like total narcissist. I don't care that I said that on camera um he wouldn't answer questions. He would only answer questions with another question.
SPEAKER_06
Oh how annoying.
SPEAKER_00
And it was a specific tactic that he was like trying to teach to us that that's how to stay in control of a conversation is to never answer anybody's question. You always have to answer it with another question just to get more information about them. Because the more information somebody gives you about them the more vulnerable they are and the more they're going to feel like they need your help.
SPEAKER_05
As a doctor how horrible is that oh my God what a fucking loser what an absolute fucking weirdo. That's so fucked. I ugh gross. So if anybody ever does that to you like fuck off.
SPEAKER_00
Keep that in mind. It's not even worth it. Yes yeah if anybody's just like refuse or just refusing to answer your questions at all. Yeah. We're human. Yeah we should be able to have curiosity we should be able to ask questions. If somebody doesn't answer your question yeah one it's because either they don't know the answer or and they're just too afraid to say that or two they're trying to play you. Okay. So you mentioned not being naive right so you need to know if somebody's playing the game however how how does one stay open but not be naive at the same time?
SPEAKER_05
So like recep receptivity almost like are you receptive?
SPEAKER_00
Yeah being receptive and just like open to life but still staying in their power.
SPEAKER_05
I feel like that's where that bluntness comes in like being assertive you know just like calling out when you see bullshit and like you don't have to call it out in any kind of way that is anything less than empowered right so it can come from like pure sovereignty. It doesn't have to come from a place of confrontation. Um but just like letting people know when they bother you and if like giving them an opportunity to fix it. And if they don't then just fuck off like make them fuck off, you know? Being open is giving everybody the benefit of the doubt to begin with and waiting until proven otherwise honestly um and most of the time people's first infractions are very small so you have to be pretty in touch with your like small intuition voice. But if you can pay attention to your small intuition voice then it won't blow up to the point where you're playing the fucking game. You know?
SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah you would mention too in order to not be naive you have to have been naive before absolutely and then learn from those yeah mistakes. Learn from the people who you let in that fucked you over. Yeah. Literally as if look at it as if it was a game and see how they played better than you see how they played you see what, see how they cheated.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Usually people that are toxic they're not just playing the game they're cheating at the game. Yes. You know so see how they did that and see how to make sure that that doesn't happen to you again. Have a layer of self protection. That being said, of course you don't want to be incredibly closed off to all of the joy that life has and all of the good people that are out there. Yeah. And it's really hard to do both to be self Self-protective and not closed off.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
So I'm not trying to pretend like it's easy. I think staying true to your values, we talked a little bit about core values in our self-concept episode. Absolutely. So knowing what those are and staying true to those at all times. So that even if you are playing the game, if those are compromised at all, you're losing. If any part of you is being compromised, then you are losing and the other person that you're playing with or other people that you're playing with are winning.
SPEAKER_05
I like that. I like that framing a lot. Yeah. Yeah. That's really well put together. This idea that if there's any piece of what you're experiencing that feels like you're losing connection with yourself, losing connection with what matters to you that you're already losing at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's like a place where you like want to develop self-awareness and become like able to pull yourself out of the game when you've started engaging with it and you don't want to, you know.
SPEAKER_00
Yes. Only play the game if you want to play the game. Yeah. Not just because somebody else has started playing it.
SPEAKER_05
Yes. And also understand the game is technically addictive in our bodies because it plays on intermittent reinforcement when you see the person over and over again. So gotta especially in relationships.
SPEAKER_00
So fucking true. I feel like we should talk about that because I do think that that dating in relationships is where the game is most often played. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
I have I have I have played the game with so many people and it's not ended well ever. Um and I don't know if I don't I don't I mean like I feel like most people are not conscious that they when they start playing the game and then they become conscious of the fact that they're doing it because it becomes like a repeated pattern. Um maybe even afterwards, once they look at it. Oh my god, yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Like it's just like the toxicity floods your system so heavily that you can't even tell it's bad. You just are like swatting in the dark kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00
Especially if it sometimes feels good. Like, you know, because if we're talking about a game, there's like multiple wins and multiple loses in a game. So especially a relationship game, a dating game, those little wins are highs. And like you said, any type of high is addictive, even if it's, you know, just from words or actions. I'm curious what what did you playing the game look like? Psycho.
SPEAKER_05
Fucking crazy. Um, just like I feel like I so I grew up in a really yelling house too. I did not learn how not to do it. Um, I was the yelling person, and I learned there are many, many variations of response to somebody yelling at you. Sometimes it's, you know, just like staying steady, which I appreciate. Sometimes it's yelling back, which can get scary if um you if normally you expect the other person to stand down and you don't, then and they don't either. And then it just becomes like chaotic and terrible. Um, sometimes people just shut down, they walk away, like whatever. But I've learned how not to yell. Uh, but it's like it's wild to see the way that if I felt like I was playing the game and somebody decided to just shut it down immediately, like I would immediately be respectful of that more often than not when they were just like, hey, like let's not do that, like let's just chill. Um, I'm like, okay, cool, we're not playing the game anymore. It can just be fine. And I love this. But man, sometimes people would not stop. And they and I'm like, oh wow. And there it it is hard. Again, I am too crazy. Um, and finding somebody who outmatched my crazy was peak experience in life, never gonna happen again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I played the best of the best in the game, and there just can't be any more. It's I'm done. No more game. No more fucking game.
SPEAKER_00
That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And I I feel like your way of playing the game has been like chaotic. Oh my god, I am the chaos fucking queen. Wait, what game would it be? If we're thinking like board games, computer games.
SPEAKER_05
Um, what's like one where like like I like oh, I know what I should call it. Um, psychological torture chess.
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
SPEAKER_05
I love it. Psychological torture chess chess. That's exactly what the fuck it felt like um in every situation I was ever in. And this is just so true. Um, so yeah, it was just like fucking head games, fucking head games. And then I like the peak of everything was me yelling, usually. And then any any partner I ever had who yelled back, I was usually pretty scared of them. So yeah, I usually I would usually be pretty fucking scared of that shit. But playing the game, um playing the game has never been fun, it's just always been chaotic. Yeah, yeah. Like when it's with somebody I'll never see again or something like that, like it's it's kind of fun, and you know, just like I don't know, like like even just road raging can be playing the game, you know? And yeah, yeah, just like people fighting with each other and snuck their middle finger out the fucking window and shit like that. Yes, yeah, like there's small ways.
SPEAKER_00
It's uh it's literally like a race car game at an arcade. Yeah, no, actually it is, yeah. Anything can be seen as game if that's the way that you see it. It is, yeah. That's what when we say play the game, it's basically life if you are seeing it that way, and or if the other person is seeing it that way.
SPEAKER_05
Yes, it's it's a shared reality, a shared experience, yeah, a shared version of reality. And that's and that's like a it's an interesting way that like people can bond with each other, you know, because there's like so many different ways that people bond, and the game being like just kind of the fucking whatever that is for anybody. Yeah. It just it's one of the more exhilarating ways. Um, and it's fun to like learn why people do it the way they do it. Uh and I like that you're conscious of why you do it because you're like, I want to teach people a lesson. I love that you know that. Like, I love that you're like conscious of like that's like the little thing. And like I used to play the game because I never thought anybody would get bigger than me. And I I always thought that I would be the one that escalated to the like the peak, and like nobody would nobody would exceed me. And so I was like, I'm not scared. Yeah. And that's when I learned I need to be scared. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So because there are people crazier than people crazier than me. Wow, what a life. Um but yeah, so I feel like my experience of the game before the crazier than me people was very much um like just I I feel like it was like very exhilarating, but then also very uh exhausting. Yeah. You know.
SPEAKER_00
It sounds exhausting.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, it totally. I mean, yeah, but like I've learned that there are better ways to handle such an intense nervous system. Uh, I can exhaust myself by being an entrepreneur and running a fucking business instead.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
So yeah. There are plenty of ways to exhaust yourself. There's so many ways that are not being in a toxic relationship. Who knew? Yeah. I feel like um my sobriety from toxic relationships is underway. Sobriety from toxic relationships. Yeah. I don't know how else to explain it. I feel like my nervous system was very much addicted to those experiences. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what happens. Totally. Totally. But like that's so when when I talk about like in relationships playing the game, I talk about like my history of toxic relationships. What about you? How do you feel like it shows up in relationships for you?
SPEAKER_00
It doesn't show up anymore, but historically, it showed up in me being incredibly calculated and tactful about everything that I did and everything that I said. Everything was for some sort of purpose, especially in the beginning. Yeah. But the thing was, it makes sense to do that in the beginning.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Right? Dating, when we're talking about dating, dating sometimes can be a game. It can be fun, you know. That being said, a full-blown relationship, somebody that you're in love with, that should not be a game.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
There should be a point where the game is like, we're like, okay, it's a tie, you know? Like there, and there's and there's no we forfeit, you know? Um, however, I felt like in my relationships, any time that I stopped playing the game, that I let my guard down, that it didn't go well. And so then I it was just more reinforcement that I need to continue to play the game. I need to continue to be incredibly tactful. I can't get vulnerable. I can't get messy. I can't ever get chaotic. Yeah. I can't have a bad day. Yeah. I need to stay this. So you you would make yourself smaller in that way. My real self smaller. Yeah. Yeah. I well, I would make parts of myself smaller.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. Because the there are there are parts of me that you know that are genuinely just very mindful and things like that. Those were the parts that were taking over. And then they took over the more vulnerable parts, which in IFS we call them the exiles. Um but it was more protective parts out all of the time. Yeah. And the more vulnerable parts always tucked away and hidden. Yeah. And I had this weird moment with uh when I was interning uh at a private practice when I first became a therapist. My the person that I was interning with, who I loved, learned a lot from. She was dating. I was I was in a relationship, but she was dating and she was on these dating apps, and she kept asking me for advice and stuff like that. And I was telling her what to say, and she was like, but that feels inauthentic. And I was like, Oh, what? And I was like, I thought you wanted to play the game. And she was like, No, like she was like, be like, lit and she, you know, she's a little bit of hippie, but she was like, living an authentic life is really important to me. And I was like, Oh, well, I don't know shit about that, so don't ask me about that. And it was at a point in my life where I really didn't know about that or I didn't value that. I now have reframed it to be as such that I do think that I am very authentic and my authentic self is mindful. My authentic self actually can be calculated sometimes because it's just a part of me.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
You know, and I I am not somebody that will wear my vulnerability all of the time. And I'm not somebody that, again, like IFS, that will have like my exiles on my sleeve. Yeah. Because I know how cruel the world can be. That being said, I think that I've gained a level of self-protection that isn't a wall.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
That is just protecting me just enough.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Versus too much and making me cold. Absolutely. That being said, the way that it looked before was just being like incredibly mindful about every little move that I made. Um, I feel like my my game, if I it was like Dungeons and Dragons, it's like very intricate. There's like a lot of moving parts. I love it. It kind of makes no sense, but I love fun at the same time. Yeah. And I mean, there are still things that I do to this day. I I don't play the game, I don't really play it anymore. Yeah. But there are things that I have taken with me that I'll still do. Like in terms of as a therapist, we always say meet people where they're at, meet clients where they're at, and stuff like that. And which, you know, it's great for clients and patients. But when it comes to people out in the wild, I still will always meet people where they're at, except it's important to meet people where they're at while not sacrificing who you are and not being afraid to show who you are. Absolutely. Like, for example, if somebody is coming at me and I really don't like their energy, yeah, I still want to meet them where they're at conversationally. And meet meeting someone where they're at is like active listening, genuine empathy. I'm gonna go where you want to go with this.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean? Yeah. Even if I don't agree, even if you're talking about something that I genuinely don't agree with, I'm gonna follow you down this rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
If I want to, of course. You don't need to do this.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
But if for some reason I want to do this, yeah. Whether it's just to make you feel good, whether it's to because I feel like you need it, yeah, whether it's if we're talking business because I need something from you, whatever it is, I might follow you there. So that's meeting someone where they're at. However, you don't need to match someone's energy.
SPEAKER_04
Right.
SPEAKER_00
So a lot of times if somebody comes at me with energy that is hard and mean, instead of a lot of people will naturally match that energy because they feel like they need to. Right. Because they're like, oh, this is the only way that this person's gonna listen to me. That is a very natural response.
SPEAKER_02
Right.
SPEAKER_00
However, I'll do the opposite of that. I'll choose opposite action, which is a DBT skill. And so I, if they're meaner, I'll get kinder. If they're harder, I'll get softer. And then they'll start to meet me where I'm at. That's where people want to be, though. People want to be able to be kind. People want to be able to be soft for the most part. And they just feel like they can't be. So by you showing them that to like an extreme version, it we're talking about nervous system, it regulates their nervous system. They're like, oh, okay, exhale. I can do this. I don't need to be hard. I don't need to be mean, you know?
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And that has been a tactic that I use. And it's again, like, we can call that playing the game, we can call that mindfulness, we can call it being calculated, manipulation, they all mean the same thing. Yeah. I don't think that any of those things are inherently bad.
SPEAKER_05
No, none of them. And I tell all my clients, I'm like manipulation is not a bad word. No, it's manipulation is fawning, right? Like those, like that, they're they're responses to your nervous system going through stress, your nervous system going through fight or flight, right? So a lot of times when we play the game, it's to just like control a situation that we don't want to be engaging in or that we're engaging in in a way that doesn't like maybe we don't even consciously know we're engaging with it, right? And it just freaks us out. And so the idea of just like the use off like the opposite action piece is really brilliant for just co-regulating when with another human. Yeah. That's exactly what you're describing, is like instead of instead of um going on the little ride with them, you just co-regulate with them. Yes. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about how to not be controlled, how to like walk away nicely from the game. Um so when it comes to the way that people play the game, what do you typically see as the way that people initiate it with you?
SPEAKER_00
That's a good question. I see it as people trying to manipulate me and failing.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And usually I'll allow them to believe that they manipulated me because that's that's how we play the game. Usually it'll start like that. Or it'll be something like that, or like we talked about the love bombing, the trying to subtly put you down, the trying to get information out of you in a way that you feel like is impure. Yeah. Their intentions are impure.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
So that's usually how I will see it, or trying to use you. Yeah. For it will use me for anything, whether it be sex, whether it be trying to use my like talent or my ideas. That's happened a lot to me.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
So things like that, that's how I usually see it come up.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And I think not allowing that to happen is one, admitting that it has happened.
SPEAKER_06
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
Admitting that you have lost the game before.
SPEAKER_06
Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_00
And then looking at that and being like, okay, how can I prevent this from happening in the future? Yes. Really knowing like what your values are, really having that strong self-concept and staying steadfast in that. Never becoming codependent with somebody. Somebody that really wants to play the game with you is going to prey on any type of attachment wound. They're going to prey on codependency. And sometimes people are playing the game with you and they don't actually mean to play it.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
It's just in their nature. It's just in the way that they have been taught to behave.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
That that life really is a game and somebody is always winning and somebody is always losing.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And again, it can this can be totally subconscious. I don't think a lot of people are going around being like, I'm gonna play checkers today.
SPEAKER_05
It's like chess tomorrow. Psychological torture chest.
SPEAKER_00
Yes. Yes. The woman in line at Starboss. Hey, let's play Clue. Let's play murder mystery. You know, I don't think that people are actually walking around with this consciously in their mind. I think that it's a lot of subconscious stuff coming out.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah. Yeah. Anything that's like really, really, really intense is usually a good sign that somebody wants to play the game. Yeah. Like anything intense. Um and the the like slow accumulation of intensity between two people is definitely so like okay, so how do you how do you dismiss the game with people that you don't know that well?
SPEAKER_00
Disengag. Yeah. One, disengaging or just winning in a way that's really fast.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And that will be when I tell somebody off.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And it's telling somebody off in a way of like, I'm not necessarily I'm saying this is what I have figured out about you. And this is and I knew the entire time. So we're done here. And I usually do do that at some point. I like that. But I've had your number from the very beginning.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And I was waiting until I needed to tell it because sometimes people can people can play the game in a way that isn't disruptive.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean? And we talked about dating. Dating a lot of times is a game. People aren't showing their true selves. It doesn't mean that people are really trying to like fuck you over or anything like that. But a lot of times we are playing a game. It just but it it needs to end at some point.
SPEAKER_05
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00
How do you know when that point is? Trial and error. You're naive until you're not. Yeah, you're naive until you're not. Trial, trial and error and um intuition and having lost the game before. So maybe knowing the trajectory of a game can be helpful.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Also knowing when someone's cheating at the game.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Knowing if you're cheating at the game.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
You know, then maybe it's or when it actually scratch all of that when it doesn't become fun anymore.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah, that's so real.
SPEAKER_00
Right. You know real. Like think about like when you were a kid. I didn't grow up in a board game family at all, but I've played them. Yeah. And think about when you're a kid and you're playing a board game. If it stops being fun. Yeah. You know what I mean? If it stops being, especially if it stops being fun for everyone.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Why are we doing it anymore?
SPEAKER_06
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00
When it stops being fun, when it starts to feel bad, when it starts to feel dangerous, it starts to feel toxic. That is your key to get out. And you can do that by disengaging, by calling it out, saying, Hey, this is the game that you've been playing. You can own your shit and say this is the game that I've been playing, and we are no longer going to be doing this. You know? What about you? How how do you normally see it coming up? And how do you decide that it's been enough?
SPEAKER_05
Um, I usually don't really let it go past a certain point, and I just kind of like talk down to the person, like honestly, in a way that just kind of establishes my dominance, I guess, so to speak. Um, which is it feels like a weird way to say it, but it's totally exactly what it is uh in in practice. It's just knowing that nobody can like step over me. And like it it's it's so subtle that even I don't consciously notice when I'm doing it. But it comes out and it works really, really well. Um and I think again, it's I I think I intimidate people. And so I just kind of show a little scary in me and then they kind of just like back down. Um, but that's people that I don't know, people that I do know, like people who in the long term would try to get me to play the game. Uh the way I dismiss that is like with kind of a big bang at the end. So I'm just like, okay, that's enough. Doors closed forever. Um, kind of thing. So yeah. What about you? When you know somebody for a very long time, how do you dismiss the game from them? Or dismiss yourself from the game with them?
SPEAKER_00
I will either distance myself. Yeah. I I wouldn't I I'm not a loud bang type of person. So I'll either distance myself. Slowly or I'll ghost them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like more recently I've been less of the Big Bang person for sure.
SPEAKER_00
Um I tell clients that I'm like, just block them. Yep. You don't, you don't need to know what they have to say to that. You feel confident that this is no longer somebody that you need to talk to anymore. Just let it let them go gently into the sweet night.
SPEAKER_05
No, literally, yeah, exactly. And I'm just like, yeah, this just this can this is a mercy killing. Just like let it be over, let it die. Um, don't pursue it further. And that's that's a very, very refreshing way to approach it. Um, because you don't have to feel so like tied up in playing the game. You can actually be separate from it and yes, okay. Just close that door. Don't let it be crazy.
SPEAKER_00
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, 100%. And not letting it impact your life in a negative way, because if things get toxic, if things get chaotic, it's going to impact you negatively, not just the other person, not just the person that's playing you.
SPEAKER_06
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
So it's kind of how do you get out in the cleanest way possible?
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And I mean, unless you want to start a fire. Like if that feels like it needs to happen, power to you. You know, I shouldn't be saying this as a therapist, but like I believe in revenge. Well, I just write books about the people that I want to get revenge on. I just fucking cut people out of my life ruthlessly.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah. I like I close doors like so hard so fast.
SPEAKER_00
I'm like, which is a really good way as well. You know. Um, but I I don't I don't always think that it's fair when somebody just like really fucking ruins your life and they just get away with it and they're just gonna do it to the next person and then the next person and the next person. So yeah, I mean, my way of getting revenge isn't actually super vigilante by any means, but it's in a way that makes me feel better and that gives me closure. So that's I guess closure is probably a better word than revenge. But the the dark romance writer wants to say revenge.
SPEAKER_05
So I love that. I love that. Yeah, yeah. My closure, my closure truly is just like, nope, I'm done. Yes. I wanna fuck with you. You're like, you're crazy. Yes, and I'm crazy, and I don't know which one of us is crazier, so we don't do this.
SPEAKER_00
Yes, we can.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, we're not gonna we don't need to figure out which one of us is crazier. No one's we're just gonna die trying. Yes, I I have realized I'm way too crazy to play the game. I just can't. Like, I just can't. It just doesn't work. And um when I do play it, I'm very blunt about just like we're not doing this, like we're not fucking doing it.
SPEAKER_00
Yes. Yeah, yeah. I I don't play it anymore for the most part, but holy shit, if I did. Girl, like if I did. Does you know you better watch out? You really should. I I also like I learned I learned a bunch of things too from even the small amount of time that I have dated. Yeah. It's people are always like, Are you psychoanalyzing me? I'm like, yeah, you know, like a little bit, a little bit. And it's not necessarily even that I'm that interested in you. It's just that I can't help it. And also it's interesting as like a study for if we're talking about dating, like all men. Yeah. And something that like I learned like some like dark psychology tricks. Yeah. And I don't believe in a lot of them. One, one that I this isn't dark psychology. This is just something that I realize, and I'm not saying that anybody needs to do this, but this is something that I have chosen to do is to not trauma dump on anybody. Yes. To slowly tell people things that you've been through over time. I mean, as a way of not, of course, it's gonna not overload them, but it's also a way of protecting yourself. Yeah. Because holy hell, if you give somebody your heart and they don't hold it gently, you're never gonna want to give it again. Or you're just gonna keep giving it and giving it, and eventually it's gonna be too broken to repair. So you need to have that layer of self-protection. So kind of giving people little nuggets. I hate that word. I don't know. The only word I can think of giving people little nuggets of what you've been through, you know, because I do think that it's important for especially your partner, if it's somebody that you're gonna spend your life with, they should know what has happened to you. Yeah. I do believe that. Yeah. They should know what you've been through, they should know also it can help them understand you better, it can help them be gentler with you and know how to be and why to be. So I do think that it's important, but doing that slowly, not overloading somebody all at once, protects you and it also protects them. Absolutely. That's something that I've taken with me. And I again, not everybody needs to do that. If you are somebody that you're like, I just need to get it all out and I need to tell my story and I don't care who listens, do you, girl? Absolutely. But some some like kind of darker ones that I've learned is with men to never talk badly about your ex. And so it makes sense for a lot of reasons. Yeah. And I believe in it for some for certain reasons. One, I mean, nobody really wants to hear about your ex, which is just standard across the board. Yeah. However, if you're dating a man and you're talking about how another man has treated you bad, that can inadvertently give him permission to also treat you bad because he knows that your standards are gonna be low. Versus if you say that my ex treated me really well and you know, blah, blah, blah. Men love competition. So they will see that and be like, well, I need to treat her better. It's like giving them some sort of standard.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00
And again, I'm not saying that you need to use that. If you have an ex that was extremely abusive, I think that that's important for your partner to know.
SPEAKER_06
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00
If they're going to be a long-term partner, but maybe it's not important for like somebody that you're just dating to know.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
If they know that you've been in an abusive relationship, who knows if there's a light going off and they're like, my turn. Absolutely. So you need to be careful about that. And one last one that I've learned that I don't use. And I feel like this wouldn't work. I think I learned this from like when I first broke up with my ex, I was on like dating TikTok.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And just like, I was like, what are the kids doing these days? Yeah. And I remember hearing this like dark psychology trick of like playing the game. Yeah. And it was the way to make somebody fall for you is to find out exactly like what they want in life, like their actual goal in life, and then making them believe that they need you in order to achieve that goal.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. Which is wild to me. I have never done that. I think that that is such an abuse of like a person to do that, especially if you can't produce. Yes. And if you think about it, men do that to women all the time. They don't even know the trick and they're just doing it. No, it's based on their gut, which is wild. It is wild. It is wild. Yeah. They're like, I can make all your dreams come true, you know? And if they know like the specific dream.
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And I think especially like men who I mean, there's that one song I can make you a celebrity overnight. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I think it's especially men that have some sort of power, some sort of whether it's money, whatever it is, some sort of affluence, they might not actually have the power to give you what you want, but they can sure do a good job of convincing you. Absolutely. I've seen rich dudes do this. If like, for example, if I was a rich real estate investor.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And you were an aspiring singer.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And I was just like, I know people, you know, like, and and I wear a suit and I have a big home. You're gonna fucking believe me. But I probably don't actually know shit about the music industry. So it can be career or it can be like making somebody's dreams come true about being a mom. It can make somebody's dreams come true about being loved and accepted for who you are fully.
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And if somebody knows what your dream is and they want to convince you that they can give it to you, but they don't actually intend on giving it to you or following through on that promise, that can be really, really fucked up. Absolutely. So, girlies, look out for that. If somebody if somebody says they can make all your dreams come true. I'm not saying that they can't, but like maybe DM us. We can we can probably workshop through that. We'll vet them.
SPEAKER_05
We'll vet it. Yes, we'll vet it. Yeah, exactly. We're here for you, girlies. Yes, always, always. Yes. And it's as always. If you ever want to give us your stories about your experiences playing the game or your favorite tips on how not to play the game, you can DM us. It's at Hot Girl Psychology and at on Instagram and Hot Girl Psychology Podcast on TikTok.
SPEAKER_00
If social media is not your thing, you can contact us at hotgirl psychology.studio and then go to our contact page. It's totally anonymous. We're not gonna say your name on here unless you really want us to. We can totally give you a shout out. We're all we are a girls girl podcast.
SPEAKER_05
We are a girls girl podcast.
SPEAKER_00
So we are girls supporting girls. So but yeah, we really would love to hear from our girlies. So we have one episode left of the season. So please stay tuned for that. And again, if you have any special requests, let us know. We can't wait to see you again.
SPEAKER_05
Bye bye, girly.